Kenneth Swanson: You specifically pointed out, I have to get over the last five years.
Son: I said specifically we both have to, that’s the olive branch I am extending here, because we both feel we have been wronged.
Kenneth Swanson: Well, now I agree with that. But the only reason we stopped communication was because you cut it off.
Son: I stopped speaking to you. This is correct.
Kenneth Swanson: All right, then that’s what it is, and that’s how it is, and I just have to get over it…
Son: I have never once acted like I’m not the—I started not talking to you. That’s very, very clear. I never once denied that.
Kenneth Swanson: Okay, great. Well, that helps us to move forward.
Kenneth Swanson: Utterly uncalled for, and you choose politics over your father. That’s it. And then seven days later, you came to me and acted like nothing had happened. And you weren’t, and I quote, going to ever speak to me again, maybe through text. Well, then you call me up, acting like nothing happened. Oh, can I come to your house and get my shit? No, you can’t.
Son: So you were hurt and you lashed out against me?
Kenneth Swanson: [laugh] Yeah.
Yeah so about 5 years ago during the 2020 presidential election and amidst the 1.25 million COVID deaths, I brought up politics to him. In frustration, due similarly to what is seen documented this time around, I told him I do not want to speak with him as our ways of thinking have become so incredibly deviated.
As I lived in a different city at the time, I made arrangements the following week to come by my childhood home which I only moved out of less than a year prior to attend college and retrieve a dresser and a few boxes of sentimental items which were sequestered in an unused room prior to my moving out. He chose this time to enact his form of revenge on me by changing the locks and refusing me entry to collect what we both acknowledge as my belongings until I apologized to him.
So yes, he used his possession of my materials to manipulate me into giving him an (insincere) apology that I did not feel was warranted. He is still unable to see how this is immature and a further degradation of our relationship.
Anyone who has ever gone through a break-up knows holding their stuff as hostage to get what you want is considered in human culture as a dick move.
Regardless, I stopped speaking with him for the other reasons, but this final action on my way out the door essentially just cemented my decision as the right one to make. I don’t understand the motives behind this choice beyond hatred/revenge.
Kenneth Swanson: Right now I’m the only one asking questions, answering questions. Go ahead, son.
Son: Do you want to go question for question?
Kenneth Swanson: Go ahead, ask me whatever you would like.
Son: I would like to know how to make you feel comfortable with the conversation that we’re having.
Kenneth Swanson: Not to make it feel like it’s supposed to be a teaching moment from you.
Son: I haven’t said anything to you about how anything should or shouldn’t be. I’ve only asked questions.
Son: I’m sorry, I’m sorry. Can we just take a second and just breathe for a moment here?
Kenneth Swanson: Oh my god. Yeah, go ahead.
Son: No, more so for you, because I feel as though you’re upset, and I’m not sure why.
Son: Do you just want to take a second and breathe here? Let’s just take a quick minute.
Kenneth Swanson: How about you be quiet for an entire minute?
Son: That’s what I’m asking as well.
Kenneth Swanson: No, I’m asking you to be quiet for an entire minute. That’s good.
Kenneth Swanson: It would be so very awful of you to end our relationship. And you think that deserves no repercussions. And I should just say sure.
Son: What repercussions would you like to give me?
Kenneth Swanson: Oh sweet mother of god, this is water under the bridge.
Son: Okay, then let’s move past it. Can we do that then? If we both agree it’s water under the bridge, I would like to agree with that.
Son: Do you want to take a breath? Do you want to pause here for a minute?
Kenneth Swanson: No, I need you to stop fucking interrupting.
I tried to be accommodating, to make him feel comfortable, to take breaks as needed so we can calm down before continuing. It ended up being a 2.5 hour long call. Every attempt to be kind was met with such vitriol, I don’t understand how a human can treat another human this way, let alone a father to his son.
Son: This is part of the reason as to why I wanted to do politics. There’s nothing political about how tariffs function. It just happens to be a governmental aspect of it. I’m not arguing with you whether or not the tariffs should be there or not. The fact that we can’t agree as to who pays the tariffs is mind-boggling to me. The fact that you can go in one hand and say, I believe in science, science is real, but then in the next sentence say, all of the scientists with peer-reviewed journal articles of different levels of data and science saying climate change is real, and you call it a fucking load of garbage.
Son: I feel that you have hurt me so badly that I don’t want to even share things about myself with you because I don’t want to be hurt by you again. This is the problem right here, dad. I don’t want to be hurt by you again. Meanwhile, you’re sitting over there telling me to pull up my panties and grow up. That is the difference between our relationship right now. I am in hurt. You are telling me to get up and get over it. Why would I entertain involving you in my life when you’re just showing me that you’re going to hurt me again? I’m afraid of you hurting me. Are you afraid of me hurting you?
Kenneth Swanson: Yes.
Son: How would I hurt you? How have I hurt you? By not talking to you?
Kenneth Swanson: If you don’t know that there’s no way to explain it.
Son: I think that that is outrageous. You can just answer the question with your heart open like a man. How have I hurt you?
Kenneth Swanson: By the, oh God, it’s obvious son.
Kenneth Swanson: Brian, what would make you think that you lashing out at me and cutting me out of your life would not have repercussions?
Son: I’m finding out about you right now. I’m trying to figure out, is this the person that I would be accepting into my life? The person that treats me like this when I’m calmly asking you questions about things that we disagree on. And this is the behavior that I get in return.
Kenneth Swanson: Brian, you realize again, again, this is a two way street. I’m getting the same bullshit from you that you’re getting from me.
Son: Now you’re saying I’m bullshitting you man. I don’t get it.
Kenneth Swanson: Oh dear God. Brian, the trust was broken because of you.
Son: Okay, so now we’re blaming me. It’s entirely my fault.
Kenneth Swanson: I’m not, Brian, I don’t have to think about blaming you.
I am trying earnestly to understand and connect with this man. He cannot seem to give me a straight answer, nor focus on solving the problem, only on pointing fingers.
Son: Right, we only have one life on this earth, okay? You wouldn’t really want to associate with someone that does horrible things that you can’t fathom, okay? I’m not suggesting that’s you, I’m not suggesting that’s me. But I am saying that there is a line that every one of us has to draw about who we’re willing to associate with. We all draw it whether or not we know it. Would you agree that at some point there is somebody that would do something that you wouldn’t want to associate with them?
Kenneth Swanson: Obviously.
Son: Okay. I think that one of my lines is belief in mathematics, data, and science.
Kenneth Swanson: I’m waiting for the point.
Son: It would make a lot more sense if the point before it was fresh in our minds. The point before it was that I think I draw my boundaries and I won’t hang out with somebody that sees data, sees the analysis and interpretation, and then says, no, that’s not right. You’re lying to me. I feel as though I draw a line there.
Kenneth Swanson: So I was right when I interrupted you. You wanted to make the fact that you know numbers and now that because of that, that you know for a fact climate change is correct and you can’t hang out with your father because he doesn’t agree with you on climate change.
Son: Because he calls facts lies. Would you do not think that two people who disagree on what can be considered truth and not truth, that’s going to be a hard relationship to actually have. You and I don’t agree on what truth is.
Kenneth Swanson: Okay. I’m going to do the childish thing again that you like to mock. Is it my turn? Are you going to cut me off in second sentence?
Son: Are you going to address the fact that we have things that we don’t agree? We can’t agree on truths or you’re going to talk about something else.
Kenneth Swanson: There ain’t no we in this unless you have a mouse in your pocket.
Son: We aren’t agreeing. We’re looking at one thing and we’re drawing two different conclusions from it. We do not agree on what is true.
Kenneth Swanson: We don’t agree on climate change.
Son: We don’t agree on facts. That is the problem.
Son: Okay. Okay. My turn.
Son: I am realizing that I’m growing. And you know what being grown is? Getting to choose who’s in your life and someone who’s going to sit there and say, pull up your panties and grow up. Why do you think that I would want that in my life? How are you acting at all in a way in which I would be welcoming you back into my life?
Son: How would you see us being able to calmly communicate with things when something as simple as science we disagree on? How would you see us having a conversation with much… I’m sorry, I started asking another question. Please go ahead.
Kenneth Swanson: Do you remember referring back to the 70s? In fact, there was an advertisement that had Leonard Nimoy, Spock on it, we used to love Star Trek, I realize this is before your time too, that talked about we were all going to freeze to death with another global ice age. This is back in the 70s, son. And then we went through the phase where, oh my god, we’re all going to burn up to die.
Son: I feel as though you’re not answering my question, you’re just explaining how climate change is wrong.
Kenneth Swanson: I’m not answering your question, I already… you said it was my turn. I already answered your question by referring to things that I’ve lived in my lifetime that you have no fucking clue of. Listening to this same climate change… stop! This is my turn! You want me to answer your question? I’m trying to. I don’t want to have to constantly talk over you. I already answered your question. I heard this same stuff before you were born by decades. I heard it go from freezing to burning up, back to freezing, and then him saying, oh well, we can’t figure out whether we’re going to freeze to death or burn up, we’ll just call it climate change. That’s where we are today.
Son: That’s not true. That’s not factual at all.
Kenneth Swanson: Okay, sure! I’m glad you don’t think so. Next topic. I disagree with what you’re saying.
Son: My question is not… that’s why I was interrupting you, by the way, when you say next topic. Now that I’ve heard your answer, and the reason why I was interrupting you was because you weren’t addressing my question at all. It wasn’t specifically about why you don’t believe climate change is real. Oh, I’ve heard different things, oh, it’s waffled back and forth. I don’t care about that. My question is, how are we, again, because the whole purpose of this conversation is to rebuild trust here, how are we supposed to be able to get along when we disagree on things such as science, just science, we just disagree on literally science, dad. I’m struggling to figure out how. That’s something to overlook.
Kenneth Swanson: Brian, in case you haven’t come down to figure this out, this is your problem. This isn’t mine.
Son: You say that as though us not having a relationship would only be my problem and not your problem. You say that as though we’re not in the same boat, and you say that, and it hurts.
Kenneth Swanson: Okay, Brian, how do you think we can get over the fact that we don’t agree on science?
Son: Yes, that’s the exact question I just asked you. I agree. I know it’s a hard question to answer. How do you think we can do that?
Kenneth Swanson: Okay, I don’t know. You tell me.
Son: Okay, why is it so bad to say I don’t know? I clearly don’t know. That’s why I asked the question.
Kenneth Swanson: Brian, I’m literally telling you my life experiences and the stuff I’ve been fed by government my entire life that you don’t have a freaking clue about as to what I’m referencing as to why, and you discount it as though it means nothing. I’ve been getting screwed over and fucked and had to jump around and work through all of these different stupid taxes and regulations and changes twice as long as you’ve been alive. I’ve played this very game. However, I never let it affect me the way it affects you. I realize it’s all government and it’s a load of crap. You gotta figure out a new job.
Son: I hear you, dad. I hear you. The government is crap. I hear you. I hear you. Climate change is not government. Climate change is not governmental related, dad. It’s not governmental related.
Kenneth Swanson: Yes, it fucking is.
Son: So you think that every government in the world is collaborating? Do you think every government in the world is collaborating against you to give you more taxes?
Kenneth Swanson: We’re back to the VAT tax and we’re back to the carbon tax.
Son: No, dad, explain to me. How is climate change governmental?
Kenneth Swanson: Son, how the fuck?
Son: Do you want to take a breath? Do you want to pause here for a minute?
Kenneth Swanson: No, I need you to stop fucking interrupting. Yes, the governments are corrupt. They want your money. You pay them all you want. I don’t choose to do that. If you choose to be suckered and believe in it, you go right ahead.
Son: Can you tell me the point of government?
Kenneth Swanson: No, goddammit. I’m in mid-sentence. Be quiet. In the bigger picture, you and I are one vote. We are not going to fix climate change. We’re not going to change whether Trump wants tariffs or Biden doesn’t. We’re not going to change any of these things. We are going to live within this construct. We are going to live within this construct.
Here are some scientific, peer-reviewed, journal articles on climate change that I told you I would provide:
Source from climate.gov explaining the basics: https://www.climate.gov/maps-data/climate-data-primer/predicting-climate/climate-forcing
International Panel on Climate Change: https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/SYR_AR5_FINAL_full.pdf
Study from Japan reaching back 1200 years: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0006320709001517
Oh and here’s the main thing you kept bringing up, another journal article specifically dispelling the myth that you kept repeating that in the 70s the Earth was about to enter an ice age. https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/89/9/2008bams2370_1.xml
I can and will provide additional sources upon request. Here I have presented information from our government, an international panel including the World Meteorological Organization, and the United Nations Environmental program, another from just Japan, and a specific article to refute your claim about the cooling in the 70s.
Do you have any sources to back your claims of 1) climate change is “a fucking load of garbage” and 2) Foreign countries pay for the tariffs? I’m open to changing my mind when presented with new evidence, have ya got any?
I’ll send all this information to your email if you like, for easier review. Just let me know which email address to send it to.
He agrees with me twice that this phone call is a test of him, then says twice that this goes both ways, then says twice that he’s ready and I’m the only one stopping us from reconnecting.
He cannot maintain a train of thought nor focus on a goal for anything beyond what serves his momentary interests.
The entirety of this call went like this, with him contradicting himself, and demanding I indulge in his inane lengthy ramblings instead of just steadily discussing things one point at a time. Frustrating and disappointing.
Son: Do you, um, bear with me here, believe in science?
Kenneth Swanson: Oh my god, yes son, I believe in science.
Son: How do you feel about climate change?
Kenneth Swanson: Oh my fucking god. I think it is a fucking ruse like the VAT tax over in Europe. Are you familiar with the VAT tax in Europe?
Son: So, you don’t think climate change is real?
Kenneth Swanson: I said it is a fucking load of garbage.
Kenneth Swanson: I’m asking a simple question. Do you know how science works?
Son: Yes. The reason why science works is because it’s repeatable. It’s repeatable. You and I could go out and do the same tests.
Kenneth Swanson: I agree with that. So long as they’re paying for the study to come out the way they wanted, it can come out any damn way they choose.
Kenneth Swanson: So what are you going to do to get over the fact that I don’t believe the pseudoscience that they’ve been feeding you? I’ve got three times the experience and listening to the government feed me this same shit that you’re drinking wholesale right now. So gee, I’m sorry. I don’t believe it. I’m a little jaded. Now take that and run with it.
Son: We should be able to agree on it.
Kenneth Swanson: Should we now? Then maybe you should agree that climate change is a load of shit.
Son: Dad, I’m fully willing to listen to your arguments that climate change isn’t real. I’m fully willing to listen to it if you have any sort of information, data, sources, literally anything, anything at all, any reason for me to believe you.
Kenneth Swanson: I tell you what, if I’m alive in 20 years, let’s have this conversation again. And then you can see how much smoke has been blown up your ass in the last three or four years.
He believes in science, he agrees that science works because it’s repeatable, but he thinks all scientific studies are bought and paid for to determine their results. Somehow this meshes with the idea it’s impossible to find any scientific studies to provide me with that were bought and paid for to disprove climate change.
Son: The way that tariffs function, if we import, let’s say a widget from, let’s say from Cambodia. Cambodia does not get charged any additional money to send that widget to us, but the person who picks it up from the dock has to pay the additional tariff on it to get it released from the dock to bring it into the country. The people buying the things from the other countries are the ones that pay tariffs.
Kenneth Swanson: Yeah, I think you’re wrong. Do you realize the European Union had a flat 25% tariff on everything that came out of the United States and went into Europe and we had none?
Son: So, I’m sorry, so during that period, during that period, were we paying the tariffs or were they paying the tariffs? You said that we had no tariffs on Europe, Europe had 25% tariffs on us. In that scenario, who was paying for the tariffs?
Kenneth Swanson: We had to pay before we sent them in. Oh, I’m sorry. They put an extra tariff on those goods before they released it into the country, thereby making American goods 25% more costly than European goods.
Son: Yes, that’s exactly right. So the consumers in Europe have to pay 25% extra just to get something from America. That’s how tariffs work.
Kenneth Swanson: I agree with you.
Son: That’s exactly how tariffs work.
Kenneth Swanson: Okay.
Son: So in that scenario, in that scenario, would you see the European Union as having passed a 25% tax for anybody that wants to purchase an American good?
Kenneth Swanson: You can’t tax another country, but sure… Obviously now you’re just picking apart the current politics leaders.
Son: I’m not, Dad. I’m asking you about how we view a single topic that is…
Kenneth Swanson: Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. I think the taxes, the tariffs that Trump has put down are fucking genius and the smartest fucking thing that’s happened in this country in a hundred years. Does that cut through the chase, all this bullshit you’re putting out now? It needed to be done 50 to 75 years ago.
Son: Dad, I’m not trying to argue about whether tariffs are good or bad… I don’t care if the tariffs are there or they’re not there. That’s completely moot. My whole point here is to find out if we can even agree as to whether or not tariffs are a tax. The economic viability of the tariffs is a deeply in-depth conversation that I’m not even trying to get into. I just want to know whether or not you view tariffs as a tax.
Kenneth Swanson: I do not, no.
I cannot even begin to understand how we went from disagreement on how tariffs work, to then becoming in agreement on how tariffs work and that they are a functional tax in his example, yet by the end we’re back to disagreement. It is mind-boggling.
Kenneth Swanson: I’m a registered Republican, yes.
Son: Can you elaborate as to why you’ve chosen this?
Kenneth Swanson: Why I chose to be a Republican?
Son: Yeah.
Kenneth Swanson: This little thing that politicians like to do now called work days, where he did a hundred work days and he would do a hundred other people’s jobs. So he would relate to the people he was governing. And Republicans began to have more middle-of-the-road values, more average voter values. And after awhile the people that were on the Democratic side did not have the values that I chose. That’s what I would prefer politicians… for politics to be local, not federal.
Son: So would you say that you prefer a larger or smaller federal government?
Kenneth Swanson: Oh, dramatically smaller, to the point in the state of Florida we almost don’t even know there’s a Washington. The federal government was designed to be infinitesimally small. And this has been twisted and ruined over the 200 years since the original document. Because the Confederate states did not want to be ruled by a king. They did not want to be ruled by some far away entity that was out of touch of the realities of what was going on on the ground.
Son: I think the only thing that you mentioned that it should be able to do is to wage war. Is there anything else you’d like the federal government to do for us?
Kenneth Swanson: No, very little.
Kenneth Swanson: I never thought he was going to get elected in 2016. I was stunned. I stayed up till 2 o’clock in the morning watching the fucking results, amazed that it actually happened. The main reason I follow politics is because I try to take care of my money. And depending on what fool is in the White House can affect money. And that is what I’m concerned with.
So he says he wants politicians that have more “middle of the road” values, similar to those of the working class, for the federal government to be small, and yet somehow we cannot agree that Trump, a born millionaire who has certainly never worked a middle-american job a day in his life and who is ever-expanding the reach and authority of the federal government, is not what either of us actually want for this country, for each other.
Also, I have no clue why he was referencing the confederate states… Maybe 13 colonies?
The idea of a federal government only being able to wage war is… something.
Politics just boiling down to money, specifically his money, is just gross.
Kenneth Swanson: Do you realize that the money that the tariffs that were imposed last month made our, for one month, made our federal government actually in the black? The money that was coming in due to the tariffs that were imposed while he’s negotiating and trying to get tariffs…
Son: The federal government that you want to have be smaller, you’re happy has more money?
Kenneth Swanson: I’m happy they have more of Japan’s money.
Kenneth Swanson: We are not going to control the weather any more than any government can scrub carbon out of the air. All we’re doing is giving our government more money, which they are going to squander.
So he’s happy with the federal government, which he wants to only be able to wage war, is now getting large amount of more money, and at the same time, he thinks giving the government more money is bad because they’re just going to squander it. I cannot follow the logic of his hypocrisy.
